Legislature(1997 - 1998)
03/24/1998 01:38 PM Senate L&C
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SENATE LABOR AND COMMERCE COMMITTEE
March 24, 1998
1:38 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Jerry Mackie, Vice Chairman
Senator Tim Kelly
Senator Mike Miller
Senator Lyman Hoffman
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Loren Leman
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CONFIRMATION HEARINGS:
Alaska State board of public Accountancy
Marjorie J. Kaiser, C.P.A. - Anchorage
Appointed: 07/16/97 Expires 04/25/01
Steven R. Tarola, C.P.A. - Barrow
Appointed: 07/16/97 Expires 04/25/01
Sandra R. Wilson - Fairbanks
Appointed: 07/16/97 Expires: 04/25/01
Board of Barbers and Hairdressers
Lawrence R. Krupa - North Pole
Appointed: 04/08/94 Reappointed: 07/16/97 Expires:
07/25/01
SENATE BILL NO. 335
"An Act relating to barbers, hairdressers, and cosmetologists."
- HEARD AND HELD
SENATE BILL NO. 198
"An Act relating to partnerships; amending Rules 25(c), 79, and 82,
Alaska Rules of Civil Procedure; and providing for an effective
date."
- PASSED CSSB198(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
SB 335 - No previous action to consider.
SB 198 - See Labor and Commerce minutes dated 2/10/98 and 2/17/98.
WITNESS REGISTER
Mr. Robert Pearson, Intern
Senator Loren Leman
State Capitol Bldg.
Juneau, AK 99811-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 335.
Ms. Cheryl Sutton, Chairperson
Board of Barbers and Hairdressers
The Sportsman
205 Seward St.
Juneau, AK 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 335.
Ms. Catherine Reardon, Director
Division of Occupational Licensing
Department of Commerce
P.O. Box 110806
Juneau, AK 99801-0806
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 335.
Mr. Art Peterson
Uniform Law Commissioner
350 N. Franklin
Juneau, AK 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 198.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 98-16, SIDE A
Number 001
VICE CHAIRMAN MACKIE called the Senate Labor and Commerce Committee
meeting to order at 1:38 p.m. and announced that Ms. Kaiser, C.P.A.
was not available today, but they could review her resume' and
file.
MS. SANDRA WILSON, Fairbanks, said she had been very involved in
her professional activities as an accountant and will continue to
do so.
SENATOR KELLY said he didn't have any objections to the appointees
and moved to send the standard letter to the Secretary of the
Senate. There were no objections and it was so ordered.
VICE CHAIRMAN MACKIE asked if there were any comments regarding Mr.
Lawrence Krupa. There were none.
SENATOR KELLY moved to forward his name to the Joint Body of the
Legislature with the standard letter. There were no objections and
it was so ordered.
SB 335 - LICENSING OF COSMETOLOGISTS
VICE CHAIRMAN MACKIE announced SB 335 to be up for consideration.
MR. ROBERT PEARSON, Intern with Senator Leman, said he is also a
public member of the Board of Barbers and Hairdressers. He said
the main objective for SB 335 was to provide a temporary license
for people who graduated from school in barbering and hairdressing
and cosmetology. Because of the schedule of examinations in the
State, many graduates have to wait for 90 days and sometimes more
for the actual receipt of their professional license. The Board
has heard testimony from owners of some schools that it would be a
relief from hardship for the students to be able to earn some
income and stay in practice while they await their Boards.
The Board unanimously approved of a regulation change, but the
statute does not authorize this temporary license. The bill makes
a change in terminology. The word "cosmetologist" in Alaska is
used for skin care of the head and face and in most of the other
states it means almost the same as a hairdresser. So
"cosmetologist" was changed to "esthetician" which more accurately
informs the public of what the person is authorized to do.
Another change from current use is "hairdresser" in statute which
includes shaving. Right now shaving is not taught nor is there a
test, so that word was eliminated.
The Committee Substitute for SB 335 includes licensing of
manicurists which was not a formal recommendation of the Board last
year, but an area of concern.
VICE CHAIRMAN MACKIE asked what health/safety issue that a
manicurist might find themselves in.
MR. PEARSON said he didn't think it happened a great deal, but
there are occasional cuts and bleeding during a manicure, and also
making sure the instruments are properly sterilized.
Number 168
SENATOR HOFFMAN asked if manicurists who currently practice would
be required to get a license.
MR. PEARSON answered there would be a transitional period of 180
days and the exemptions that currently apply to people in smaller
communities also apply for manicurists.
VICE CHAIRMAN MACKIE asked what is involved in getting a license.
MR. PEARSON said he thought the Board would have to adopt
regulations and presently barbers and hairdressers are trained to
a degree that would be sufficient for automatic licensing. Anyone
else who could demonstrate adequate training would probably be
licensed automatically. There would be a process for setting up
instructors.
Number 182
SENATOR KELLY said they had discussed the manicuring licensure
before and he's nervous about it. There are certain entry level
positions out there, and while he recognized some health hazards,
he was not sure he wanted to institutionalize manicurists. He
thought they were asking them to go to school and the schools would
charge them money and then they would have to pay for a license and
he just didn't know if it was all that necessary.
SENATOR MILLER moved to adopt the CS to SB 335 for working
purposes. SENATOR KELLY objected.
SENATOR MILLER withdrew his motion.
Number 227
MS. CHERYL SUTTON, Chairman, Board of Barbers and Hairdressers,
said she wants manicurists to be licensed because of the health
issue. She said she had recently had fake nails applied.
Manicurists have to grind the nail bed down so they can attach the
nails. There have been times when they have drawn blood. She also
felt that a manicurist uses files and tools that could draw blood,
although it typically didn't happen. HIV and Aids is a big issue
when you do anything that draws blood.
SENATOR HOFFMAN asked if people who just do nails would have to be
licensed.
MS. SUTTON answered yes.
VICE CHAIRMAN MACKIE asked if she had an idea what it would do to
people who are currently practicing manicuring. Would they have to
go to school?
MS. SUTTON said she thought it would be a hardship for people who
are currently doing it, but she thought they needed to change
today, because there would be more problems in the future.
SENATOR KELLY said his concern was for the manicurist who would be
required to have 350 hours of instruction or have to go to schools
set up with elaborate courses with large apprentice programs for
entry level positions. He thought some hygiene instruction would
be useful, but he didn't know how to get there without a full blown
course. He thought a manicuring permit for six - 10 hours might
work.
MS. SUTTON explained that people have decided to break away from
the many things they were trained to do as a hairdresser and
specialize in one thing, like face care. That was unlicensed, so
other people would jump in and start doing face care without any
training. Finally, they made a permit and licensing system for
people who just want to be an esthetician.
Number 346
MS. CATHERINE REARDON, Director, Division of Occupational
Licensing, said she had prepared a $0 fiscal note for the original
bill and that the new temporary licenses could be absorbed within
their current staff level. She said she would refer to a bill from
last session regarding licensing of manicurists to see how it would
compare. She had no problems with the original bill and the new
terms and shaving. She has some concerns with the draft CS and the
licensing of manicurists.
VICE CHAIRMAN MACKIE said they would hold the bill for further
work.
MS. REARDON said the transition section on page 9, line 28 doesn't
grandfather in current businesses, but instead gives them 180 days
to get licenses. Exemptions for communities of smaller size is
under 1,000 in population.
SENATOR KELLY asked if they have a problem with that size or does
it work well.
MS. REARDON said it seems to work in that people don't have to get
licensed and they don't hear any complaints. Because the
enforcement for unlicensed activity is a class B misdemeanor, it's
unlikely that there will be rigorous enforcement. This year they
used an investigator to go around in Anchorage to do compliance
checks which was successful. They hadn't been to visit areas with
under 1,000 people to make compliance checks while she had been
here, so she didn't know if they were complying or ignoring them.
SENATOR KELLY said they send their unlicensed people home until her
people leave.
MS. REARDON responded that they found some people who didn't have
licenses and she thought surprise visits encouraged compliance.
She added that requirements for the professions under this Board
leave training requirements up to the Board.
She has some concern for the trade offs and the effects on small
business versus the public health and safety risk. There are quite
a few activities out there that aren't licensed like piercing and
tattoos and she looks for consistency in degrees of risk. She also
noted that DEC has the responsibility for checking out the health,
safety, and sanitation aspects (page 7, line 20) of shops and
schools and they would be taking on the responsibility for
manicurists shops, too, any they might anticipate a fiscal note
from them. Several years ago, DEC didn't have the resources to
check barber and hairdresser shops when they change hands, so they
went to checking just one time when a shop opens. Never again in
the future, as much as she understands, do they get checked because
of the lack of resources.
SENATOR HOFFMAN asked how many businesses do tattoos and piercing.
MS. REARDON said she didn't know.
SENATOR HOFFMAN said he thought that might be more serious than
manicuring.
VICE CHAIRMAN MACKIE asked her to let the Committee know what types
of things aren't being licensed right now.
SENATOR KELLY said there was another issue of an instructor having
to buy both an instructor's permit and a beautician's permit.
MS. REARDON added that they charge $100 for a two-year instructor
license and $100 for a two-year hairdresser or barber license. The
reason they offer separate licenses is because the statute refers
in a half dozen places to instructor licenses. In looking at the
financial self-sufficiency statute, it says each occupation within
a Board will cover its own costs. This is where they get the idea
that the fee needs to cover any costs of instructor regulation
versus hairdresser regulation. Personally, it doesn't bother her
if it becomes an endorsement on a regular license. She thought the
issue would be the self-sufficiency mandate; if the legislature
doesn't want them to track separate instructor costs, but to
collectivize the costs. It would not be difficult to do, but she
would need a statute change. She explained that Legislative Budget
and Audit took her to task for not rigidly applying that statute
last year.
SENATOR KELLY asked how many instructors there are.
MS. REARDON said the problem with rigidly applying the self-
sufficiency mandate will be that there are very few, 181
instructors, compared to 2,300 hairdressers, 288 barbers, and 507
cosmetologists (to be called estheticians).
SENATOR KELLY said he knew of two licensed instructors who weren't
making any money off of being an instructor; they were making it
off of straight beautician work. He wondered why they had to pay
$100 if they weren't making any money.
MS. REARDON responded that the principal of having a license is
that it costs the same whether you use it or not. If an engineer,
for example, decides to work less one year, they don't make his
license less expensive. So, it kind of comes down to the question
of whether an instructor is a separate profession. If it were not,
she wouldn't need to have a separate fee.
VICE CHAIRMAN MACKIE asked if there was any more testimony.
SENATOR KELLY remarked that he would like it to go in the direction
of a manicurist's permit that requires a certain amount of health
care training as opposed to a license with a large number of hours
and an apprenticeship. He thought you have to leave people who
really need a job to be able to do this without making it too
difficult. A lot of them simply don't have the time or money to do
it.
VICE CHAIRMAN MACKIE said he agreed and said he would hold the bill
for further work.
SB 198 - UNIFORM PARTNERSHIP ACT
VICE CHAIRMAN MACKIE announced SB 198 to be up for consideration.
MS. ANNETTE KREITZER, Staff to Senate Labor and Commerce Committee,
said there was a proposed CS to SB 198, 0LS0613\F by Bannister,
dated 3/23/98, and she explained the changes. "In the ordinary
course of business" is a phrase that was used on page 36. On page
42, in the applicability section, Ms. Bannister pointed out a
possible constitutional problem with the way it was worded in the
old bill. Her concern was that the partnership could make the
elections after January 1, 1998, immediately notify a third party
and change the partner's liability on the contract going back to
one year before the election. It would seem to violate the
prohibition against the impairment of contracts under Article 1,
Section 15 of the State Constitution. She suggested to just delete
the language which the CS does. The other change in the CS is
using bi-annual reports where it is appropriate, rather than annual
reports because this is what the Division of Banking and Securities
uses.
MS. KREITZER said there were additional amendments that hadn't been
included in the CS and that it had taken a long time to get back
from the drafter, and suggested that those could be addressed in
the Senate Judiciary Committee.
TAPE 98-16, SIDE B
VICE CHAIRMAN MACKIE asked her if she had read over the CS.
MS. KREITZER said she normally goes over a CS word-for-word, but
she hadn't done that yet.
MR. ART PETERSON, Uniform Law Commissioner, agreed with Ms.
Kreitzer's recommendation that they accept the CS and move it on to
the Judiciary Committee where further amendments could be
addressed. The two amendments proposed by Senator Kelly's
constituents were on other types of entities that aren't even dealt
with in this bill and recommended that they not be incorporated in
this bill.
SENATOR KELLY asked if this bill was a recommendation from the
Uniform Law Commission.
MR. PETERSON said it was.
SENATOR KELLY asked how much of the CS he agreed with.
MR. PETERSON replied that he agreed with all of it.
SENATOR KELLY said once they get away from his recommendations,
they are getting away from the Uniform Code which makes it
difficult to do business. The whole idea of the Uniform Code is
that all 50 states would eventually agree with each other.
MR. PETERSON said that was an invaluable point; to facilitate the
business in Alaska by Alaskans with those outside and those outside
who want to do business in Alaska is exactly the value of the
Uniform Act system. Changing annual reports to bi-annual reports
should not cause a problem. There is no problem conforming with
other states.
Number 544
SENATOR HOFFMAN asked if there was a short test the Committee could
take, so they know what they are passing out.
MR. PETERSON said he could provide them with a short summary.
SENATOR KELLY moved to adopt the CS to SB 198. There were no
objections and it was so ordered.
SENATOR KELLY moved to pass CSSB 198(L&C) from Committee with
individual recommendations. There were no objections and it was so
ordered.
Number 527
VICE CHAIRMAN MACKIE adjourned the meeting at 2:30 p.m.
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